Why don't they get it?
Massey extramural students are pissed off at the lack of understanding the 2025 Taskforce has displayed around the importance of tertiary education in building a sustainable future for New Zealand.
Brash’s 2025 Taskforce Report, which students are calling the Darkforce, calls for higher tertiary education fees, market interest on student loans and less stakeholder involvement in the governance of the institutions that deliver tertiary education.
National has already embarked on this road to the dark ages with the Polytechnic Amendment Bill. Next will be a loosening of the fee maxima alongside the removal of the united student voice through voluntary membership of student associations. And then interest on student loans…
A few years down this path and we have a business system delivering education and research. Has this worked elsewhere? Has this helped countries bounce back after a period of recession? No. Most countries have invested in tertiary education as demand has increased. What do the experts say? The recession is an opportunity to invest in productivity on a national scale.
It seems as if everyone but the government agree that education is the springboard to step change in National Productivity. Brash only sees the money-go-round, he appears to have no faith in the potential of a better educated Aotearoa society. Rude twit.
Good grief man, when will YOU get it? There is no such thing as a ‘united student voice’ – only the pretence of one.
Just because students are forced to pay for you and your friends to come up with witty catchphrases like ‘Darkforce’ doesn’t mean they agree with you.
Students have so many different points of view on so many different subjects that’s it is totally impossible to have a ‘united student voice’ on anything. Please try to understand that. You think you’re a representative of the student voice; right now you’re making them look pretty dumb.
I struggle to see how coming up with a catchphrase would cost anything, Mr Hine. You clearly don’t know what association spends its funding on.
Sure, not all students agree on everything – that’s the whole point of a University. However in my many years of study at various institutions I have never once met a student that is happy with a fee rise, would prefer interest back on loans or would advocate to have student representatives removed from University councils.
With the implementation of VSM and the Taskforce report, the government is steadily removing student’s power of voice and making it harder and harder for us to advocate for our rights.
We are paying for our education, and paying a shitload, yet we are getting less and less of a say. How is that fair?
We have a small window of opportunity to change this by working together to lobby the government before it happens.
Maybe one student leader does not share the views of all students, but we should use the system put in place by our student’s association to have that person be the vehicle for advocating on our behalf.
Instead of criticising him, why not help him help us? Tell him what you would like to see him lobbying the government to do – I bet he’ll listen. There are a few crucial things that all students should agree on, and they are threatened by the Polytech Amendment bill, the identical Education Amendment Bill that is kicking round in the ballot box, the VSM bill and the taskforce report.
So please quit with the tall poppy criticism and give him a chance to help us out
It is true of any representational group that they do not (cannot) represent all the individual interests of all individuals within the group. Even the oldest institutions in our history represent through; the majority view, the priority view, the popular (loudest) view, or the view of its leaders.
Quess what, the Student Association views arebased on YOUR feedback and communication. Then they must balance politics, services, advocacy, polar demands within a non-profit environment. On top of that, if you feel your point isn’t being represented then any student can hit up the student association in definative ways established by past students to protect all members interests. Check your constitution, policies, or write submissions to the Executive.
If you dont feel ExMSS is representing you Mr Heine, perhaps you could start here.
We currently have a voice through the Student Association. That voice is stronger the more students add their tune to it. As the critics and conscientiousness of society, is that not a threat to politicians who hope to remove some of the things we students enjoy??
Alex – surely you must know it’s not that easy. If you don’t, you’re in for a surprise should you ever think about making changes. And the phrase is ‘critic and conscience’ of society.
Harriet – it’s clear to me that you struggle with a lot of things.
There are a good number of students who acknowledge that fees must often go up over time if institutions are to maintain standards. And the interest free policy was nothing more than a desperate bribe; it certainly wasn’t good policy.
We have been landed with a millstone around our necks. I was a student until last year, and I know I was not alone in this view. Either you are being slightly dishonest in your post, or you associate with a rather narrow group of people.
Now I will continue to criticise, as I often have in the past, a system where those of a certain world view are funded by the entire student body to advocate policies only a minority of students support, or even think about.
There are far better vehicles than the one we have now; a voluntary system will acknowledge that one person (and one group) cannot – and will not – adequately represent all students.
Interesting points, as a concept I think the report is being largely ignored as a concept- With national backing away from what it sees as the more extreme aspects of the report (i.e. most of it). It will be interesting to see which points they pick up on- hopefully not the interest on student loans!
You have an interesting take on blogs Mike, i’ve always seen this one as a chance to check on the ideas, good move for any person in a representative position. Regardless of getting rid of the ability of students to offer services (Re: the FoA bill) and costing them more money, there will always be people in these sorts of positions asking students for their opinions. Mostly so that they can shout them to the beehive.
Your comment however seem a bit stuck on a concept not really covered in the body of the text. What is your opinion on the taskforce 2025 report? Otherwise i’d be willing to say that you’re simply looking for a soapbox on which to stand and offer political diatribe, not a student looking for higher quality education.
If you are going to criticise those of a certain world view who are funded by the entire student body, Mike, you probably should have done that when you were studying. And those, like yourself, who don’t like interest free student loans, could have at least acted on principle and got a loan from a bank. And pay interest. Meh.
Not sure what you’re on about Dave, but as long as you’re happy in your world I won’t intrude.
Matt on the other hand – you raise some fair points. I focused on the VSM issue because Ralph brought it up – making it fair game. If it wasn’t relevant to the post I wouldn’t mention it. Plus I have been a passionate campaigner for VSM over the last few years (yes Dave, while I was studying) – so it’s hard not to talk about it sometimes
This is going to sound pedantic but it’s not: students are not calling it the ‘Darkforce’. Students are not opposed to National’s tertiary education strategy. And students are not opposed to higher fees for education.
Ralph has fallen into the trap many student politicians do: because they get elected (invariably by a tiny number of students, as hardly anyone votes) they think they speak on behalf of all students. Not so.
If Ralph et al want to be more representative they would find out what students are actually thinking, so they can then come out and say, for instance, “60% of students are opposed to higher fees and 40% are in favour”. Or, “30% don’t like National’s tertiary policies, 40% do and 30% don’t care”. Or, “my mate came up with the term ‘Darkforce’ and I thought it was witty.”
Unfortunately, most student reps come from a world view where such canvassing would get in the way of their own agendas. A voluntary structure would allow those who don’t care/disagree to leave.
And, maybe then, there would be some real effort from student reps to consult outside their circle.
Good debate Mike,
My insistance that Students do not want highter fees and are opposed to the Draft TES comes from several avenues. I have been blogging and canvassing our students’ opinions over the last few months and have discussed these issues with hundreds of our members over the phone, by email, blog comment and the like. You can imgine that the omission of the life long learning concept from the TES has annoyed a few of our members (not to mention the devaluing of part time study) who are 87% part time and 80% over 25.
Additionally EXMSS has begun the process of finding out what our members think about VSM. The first engagement email recieved approximately 1000 responses of which 82% felt they needed representation on campus. 68% also stated they thought the existing membership system should remain in place. I realize that this does not satisfy the 26% that said they wanted choice of membership so my submission to the Freedom of Association Bill will attempt to find a way forward that ensures critical mass (needed for representation) is retained but allows a choice that is real. The next step is to write a draft submission (web-post by mid Feb) which will emailed (survey + link) to 15,000+ 2010 first semester students. They can then comment on how it satisfies (or doesn’t) their needs. From their I will write the final submission to the select committee for end March. This communication strategy has been agreed by our executive (made up of students) and is included in the survey email we have sent. You are the only one who is suggesting that we are not discussing this with our members.
Students are not opposed to National’s tertiary education strategy. And students are not opposed to higher fees for education.
It’s a bit rich, Mike, to state, as someone who is not a student, the above. I’m a student. I’m opposed to higher fees for education etc. And I’m one who didn’t get canvassed.